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Post by UltimateCloud on Sept 16, 2008 8:12:55 GMT -5
I'm sure you can guess what this is about, but... I've been reading a lot in the news recently about how this subject is gaining support in the UK. A lot of news stories and such compare it to the US where this is already a big issue and seems to have been for a long time. As I'm sure you're aware, basically some people want this taught along side the theory of evolution in public (state) science classes. (I believe that woman on the republican party said something like that too, which has sparked all this interest over here). For those of you that don't know, Creationism is where people believe the origins of life are true to those described in the book of Genesis. Basically that we all came from Adam and Eve and that story. The current scientific community disagrees with this as there is little evidence that exists which supports this theory. Creationists attempt to debunk evolution by attacking holes in the theory where some things cannot be explained. This is basically it, but just a wholesomely simplistic summary by me however. I just wondered what everyone's thoughts on the matter were? It would be interesting to hear from you guys, as this seems to be a more prominent issue for America at the minute. Does anyone here believe in Creationism or supports it being taught in a public school science class? Or do you think it is simply people letting their faith get the better of them? Do you think it would be better to teach children science based on scientific fact, or from a belief whose source is derived first and foremost from someone's personal faith? I always thought that in America the Church and the State are separate entities, which is why I was originally surprised that this was an issue. As you could probably tell, I'm highly sceptical about Creationism and strongly disagree with it being taught in a science lesson. I was just interested if anyone else thinks the same? Or if you guys actually agree with it. I can pretty much tell what some responses on here will be.. but it doesn't stop me from being interested. I just find this an interesting subject.
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Post by Caller on Sept 16, 2008 16:34:34 GMT -5
Uh considering a good deal of us are atheist, what do you think? There are holes in Creationism. Specifically, how on earth did two people entirely populate the world without massive inbreeding? Further, if you remember, Adam's son was banished and just so happened to wander into a town that was already completely populated, and this is where he met his wife. Yeah. You explain that one, and I'll give Creationism some serious thought. The biggest thing here is that I feel schools should definitely foster personal beliefs and etc., but they should not force it upon people. We're not communist. The key word in religion is faith. You have to believe in it. I, personally, cannot believe in anything as hypocritical as organized religion. You can't choose what to interpret one way, and then ignore another, just to suit your order. Doesn't work that way. Science doesn't have all the answers, no, but it will someday. If they're able to trace as far back as the primordial ooze with our current level of technology, just wait 100 more years.
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Post by Office Ninja on Sept 16, 2008 20:05:16 GMT -5
I cant think of a way to put my thoughts down in a coherent fashion...
If they want to teach this in school, then it needs to be optional. But it also seems like its crossing the line a little. Also, which version of Creationism do they want to show? It seems most religions show it in a different view. So if the Christians get their way and their version is taught, soon the Buddhists (Not sure how different it is just using them as an example) will start wanting their own version taught.
I think a class about religion, all of them, should be taught so people can see how other people believe. it would be a good thing probably. But it shouldn't be forced. It should be an optional elective.
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Post by masaia on Sept 16, 2008 20:35:37 GMT -5
I remember my 12th grade English teacher (I hated him, but let's disregard that) taught us some of the different types of religions. He explained how grand some parts were, while others fell flat and just made more questions. He is a devout Christian, but he never really emphasized it over the other ones he taught. It was fun analyzing the bible and picking up on all the problems with it Several of which Caller has already mentioned. He pretty much said before teaching it "I'm not pushing any beliefs on anyone, but some of these beliefs are too fascinating not to study. If you have a problem with it, you may drop my class" Way back in 9th grade, my biology teacher would say he could prove through science there was no god, but he could also prove that there was one through the same methods. All in all, it IS a matter of faith. Myself, well, I am indifferent. I enjoy making jokes about religion than to discuss it with my overly devout friend. When he starts preaching about God, I just kinda zone out. I do not mock his choices, they just don't interest me in the least <_<
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Post by Yvondith on Sept 18, 2008 0:54:32 GMT -5
I'm kind of with the rest of everyone, I think it should be optional. Perhaps, allow the parents or child to decide on which they would like to take, like an elective course. I don't think religion should be forced on anyone, it annoys me greatly when someone starts spilling their conversion tactics on me... Right now, I don't know what I believe in. However, I believe I should be allowed to make my own choices. I think everyone has that right.
I'm with Mas' teacher though... I like to study religion... I find it very fascinating.
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Post by dejibo on Sept 18, 2008 12:33:53 GMT -5
WOW, what a dangerous subject.
I think IF its going to be taught, then it needs to cover a wide expanse of subjects. Baptists have a VERY different veiw than Catholics. Pagans are a total 180 from others. Lets not even get into Wicca, or muselim beliefs, jewish traditions and so forth believe that God exist, but didnt have a son jesus. They believe jesus was a prophet of God, NOT his son, and therefore, dont worship jesus christ, but god himself. the original creator. Dont whisper that to a baptist, as they are all about the trinity of Father son and holy ghost.
So, IF its going to be allowed in (which I do believe in equal time) then it should be a wide net that is cast. Most american text books are so inaccurate, and full of mis information its so scary anyway.
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Post by Norfy the Walrus on Sept 22, 2008 21:55:31 GMT -5
Damnit, Nick, you know I was thinking about making a religious discussion alreayd when i was on vacation but you beat me to it. Although mine was more based on the 10 commandments than this. Maybe I'll still post that later. Anyways... I can't really say anything that hasn't been said by Dej, Ryan, Mark or Steph. But I believe that Darwinism should be in science classes only and should not be in religion classes (and vice versa) Although I believe more in the evolution theory, cause it makes more sence and has more backbone, it should not be in a religion class cause the two contradict each other quite a bit. Understandable cause you have never been to the states. Neither have I till recently. But what I have seen on my vacation is that the nation holds religion very highly (more so than Canada). On my way to idaho the sign that says "Welcome to idaho" also says "we are a christian state" or something like that. In Canada, you will never find that since it is both multi cultural and/or athiest than the states (from what I've seen) EDIT>> There is more I'd like to add. If creationism, or any form of superstitious, religious bullshit is being taught, then it needs to be taught more to adults than to children. Telling children they are doomed to burn in eternal hellfire for not following a strict set of asinine rules is a form of brain washing. That, in and of itself, is wrong.
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Post by dejibo on Sept 23, 2008 6:42:53 GMT -5
America is VERY religeous. And Proud of it! Look at the south, there are churches on every corner, and they need traffic cops on sunday to keep the flow of traffic moving. Utah, and so forth, is HUGE! in religeon. They have all of those mormon churches out there. The views, beliefs, and the story line behind why they believe what they believe is a wide wide subject. Mormons believe joesph smith was talked to by god and in order to have Gods words translated, he put the tablet (written in another language of course) into a dark hat where only HE could translate them, and he spoke the words to a publisher who wrote them down. Others believed in the translated words that only HE could see, and they marched forward. Now, Mormoms may still have that foundation of why they believe what they believe, but most are amazingly helpful and community oriented.
Same for Amish. VERY Godly people, but take a HUGE literal translation of the bible, and shun all that is unholy. Like machines. and shopping malls. Muslem women cannot go out without covering their heads. Only males of IMMEDIATE family can see them without cover. To do so tempts other men, and is unGodly.
I do believe that BOTH should be offered, but they need to find a balance, as has been said so that you are not scaring the pants off a 7 year old about a vengeful God. I dont think the other extreme about a free love God should be taught either. I think things like the Golden rule should be included.
wooo...what a subject.
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